Commentary on Dr. Horrible

[mishalak]

If you hate the ending of Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog you probably are going to hate my commentary too.

Penny dying was the right way Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog to end. Well a right way. I think it served to remind us that what Dr. Horrible built was a death ray. Cartoon villainy played for laughs is all in good fun, but the fact that a character I liked died reminded me that what Dr. Horrible was about to do was wrong. Penny died because he decided to take Captain Hammer's life. Stop and think about that for a moment.

While the 'hero' was an arrogant bastard he did not deserve death. It is really easy for geeks like me to identify strongly with the smart evil villain being beat up by the strong guy and mindlessly start rooting for the superhero's death. This is only fiction, but all fiction is a reflection of the real world. In real life when someone starts pulling out weapons innocent bystanders can and do get hurt no matter how carefully planned the act is.

I might have preferred if Penny had lived but refused to have anything to do with Dr. Horrible after the incident, but someone he cared about had to get really hurt. Because that's the short circuit to showing what evil really is. Evil is deliberately hurting people for personal gain or just because the victimizer wants to see the victim hurt. In real life it is rarely so direct and/or immediate that actions come around and bite the villain by hurting someone or something he cares about right away. However it does happen eventually in some degree. Call it karma, making your own bed, or whatever, but it does happen. This story just short circuted the process to show that it isn't just the intended victim that is hurt by violence. Except for his semi-sidekick Moist I cannot think of anyone else in the story that could have shown this by being hurt in the climatic explosion of Dr. Horrible's damaged gun.

It would have been even more obvious, perhaps, if the gun had worked but Hammer had just not been actually hurt by it since he's super tough or whatever. But instead of the gun blowing up it could have been a ricochet. But this is all Monday morning quarterbacking.

What I hate is ideas people throw around where Penny turns out to be a villain. That would have been a nice light entertainment and fun, but it wouldn't point out that he's doing EVIL. Geeks stomping jocks is not a good ending, it is just evil covered up by the fact it is someone we don't like getting hurt. It would have been a totally different sort of story.

Penny is the one good person. Of course something terrible had to happen to her just as Seymour and his love interest Audry had to die in Little Shop of Horrors (don't talk to me about the movie version). This is a black comedic musical with a bit of a commentary about what we think we need and killing to get it.

If you prefer an ending where Dr. Horrible gets the girl and Captain Hammer is put in his 'proper' place, you're probably a pretty rotten person on some level. Not evil all the time (and certainly not evil like zombie Hitler or something), but you lack empathy for people who are unlikable. Chew on that.
 

Comments

[jcfiala.livejournal.com]

I finally watched it late Sunday night, just because of all the fuss about it all week. I generally liked it, but I wish there'd been time to give Penny more of a personality and make her less an object to be fought over by Hammer and Horrible.

[mishalak.livejournal.com]

I won't argue with that. Though I will argue that that would mean that she could not possibly end up with Dr. Horrible since he is doing the stereotypical lust after a pretty girl without knowing that much about her. It would need to end with uncertainty.

[neonchameleon.livejournal.com]

If you prefer an ending where Dr. Horrible gets the girl and Captain Hammer is put in his 'proper' place, you're probably a pretty rotten person on some level. Not evil all the time (and certainly not evil like zombie Hitler or something), but you lack empathy for people who are unlikable. Chew on that.

There's only one reason why I want Dr Horrible to get the girl and Captain Hammer to be put in his place. That it's what both of them need. Captain Hammer needs a reverse - having not felt pain he has no empathy for it, and so will continue using and throwing people. Dr Horrible needs something that's not the League of Evil by which to measure himself. The compassionate and strong-minded Penny could provide him with that.

And ultimately few of the endings I've seen are any worse on Captain Hammer than the real one. Captain Hammer finishes a broken joke - which is what they tend to lead to anyway. What they all are is better for the other two leads than the official ending. And the people I worry about are (to plagiarise Lois McMaster Bujold) the fools who pray for justice rather than mercy.

While the 'hero' was an arrogant bastard he did not deserve death. It is really easy for geeks like me to identify strongly with the smart evil villain being beat up by the strong guy and mindlessly start rooting for the superhero's death.

The 'hero' was in addition to being an arrogant bastard a cold-blooded killer, more than prepared to use a death-ray on a helpless opponent. Dr Horrible never actually pulled the trigger when Captain Hammer was helpless. And I don't know that he could have done so when push came to shove. I know that Captain Hammer could because he did. Penny did not ultimately die because Dr Horrible decided to kill Captain Hammer. She died because Captain Hammer decided to kill Dr Horrible.

I'm not trying to say that Horrible was a good person. Or even someone I liked. But in your attempt to hold the mirror up (which I very much agree needs holding given some of the reactions) you appear to be downplaying Captain Hammer's role in the affair.

What I hate is ideas people throw around where Penny turns out to be a villain.

That bugs me too.

The ending I would have wanted is for Penny to cause Horrible to break his gun and burn his books (to plagiarise The Tempest) and instead work on a clean and cheap reactor to power Penny's homeless shelter.

[replyhazy.livejournal.com]

What you said, neonchameleon!

I also felt, weirdly, that it was a good ending because Dr. Horrible achieved his ambition -- one of them, anyway. He couldn't ever have BOTH of his ambitions. He was either going to have to stop being evil to get Penny or lose Penny and concentrate on the evil thing.

[neonchameleon.livejournal.com]

Thanks and I agree. I'd have preferred the get Penny and lose the evil thing ending. But I prefer redemption arcs to tragic ones. It was certainly a consistent and coherent one and in artistic terms good, even if it wasn't the ending I'd have preferred.

[selenite.livejournal.com]

The 'hero' was in addition to being an arrogant bastard a cold-blooded killer, more than prepared to use a death-ray on a helpless opponent.

Given that he'd just been at the receiving end of the death-ray a moment before I'm sure Capt's blood was pretty hot.

Plus what else do you do with a supervillain when you've got him down? Let him live and he'll just wreak more havoc in the next episode. Tolerable when he's the comic relief. When he's moved up to killing letting him live is just guaranteeing the death of innocents.

[neonchameleon.livejournal.com]

Given that he'd just been at the receiving end of the death-ray a moment before I'm sure Capt's blood was pretty hot.

IIRC, he hadn't. He'd been on the receiving end of the freeze ray but never actually on the receiving end of the death ray IIRC. The first person to fire that death ray was Captain Hammer, and at that point it blew up.

When he's moved up to killing letting him live is just guaranteeing the death of innocents.

But he hadn't at that point. All he'd done was made Captain Hammer look a fool and brought a death ray to the party.

Had Dr Horrible had the freeze ray in hand, and been threatening people with it then trying to kill him would have been justifiable. But Dr. Horrible was down and helpless at the time Captain Hammer actually pulled the trigger.

The comic relief doesn't graduate from comic relief just because they put a sticker marked "death" on top of their stun ray. They do that when they actually start killing people. And Horrible did at no point shoot Hammer when Hammer was at Horrible's mercy...

[mishalak.livejournal.com]

Got to agree with you here. Though perhaps (just perhaps) he's thinking it won't actually work. He's the idiot sort that might make that sort of assumption. Maybe he thought it would fail, just not as spectacularly as it did. Hard to say for certain though he's at the very, very least reckless in the extreme and probably an attempted 2nd degree murderer.

[mishalak.livejournal.com]

"The ending I would have wanted is for Penny to cause Horrible to break his gun and burn his books (to plagiarise The Tempest) and instead work on a clean and cheap reactor to power Penny's homeless shelter."

I'm a sucker for redemption stories. But I'm not sure that this would be a great ending. I argue that Penny could not possibly end up with Dr. Horrible since he is doing the stereotypical nerd/nebish(sp?)/"nice guy" lusting after a pretty girl without knowing that much about her. It would need to end with uncertainty on their relationship but Dr. Horrible reforming to be Dr. Honorable (or something). Otherwise she's just as much an empty cardboard cut out as in the original.

You're right that I've downplayed how bad a person Captain Hammer is a bit, that was a bit of a blind spot in my charge forward to my point. But he's not someone who deserves death. Nor does Horrible really deserve what happens to him despite what he intended. But that's what happens sometimes when people (the both of them) choose that sort of path. Deserve had nothing to do with it, it was all about revenge and things like Sweeney Todd. Which also turned out badly for nearly everyone.

[neonchameleon.livejournal.com]

I argue that Penny could not possibly end up with Dr. Horrible since he is doing the stereotypical nerd/nebish(sp?)/"nice guy" lusting after a pretty girl without knowing that much about her.

You couldn't do it in three acts with the first two set in stone, but could probably do it with four as long as Penny dominated the second part of act 3 and the first of act 4.

If the divergence point is that when Dr Horrible's gun blows up in Captain Hammer's hand it takes out a nearby bystander, and then Penny (who recognises Billy) has Billy fix the freeze ray so they can freeze the bystander and get him to hospital safely. Captain Hammer drops out from the pain and is presumed dead - sufficient for Billy to join the Evil League of Evil. Act 4, Penny forces the choice between the Evil League and her. I think that could work. In three acts, as you say, there's not enough time to give her agency.

But he's not someone who deserves death. Nor does Horrible really deserve what happens to him despite what he intended. But that's what happens sometimes when people (the both of them) choose that sort of path.

Agreed on all points.

[almeda.livejournal.com]

My main complaint is that Acts I and II were each (a) funny and (b) fairly standalone in pacing (though II would likely make little sense without seeing I first, characterwise).

Act III was very strangely paced, hardly funny at all. I found it mostly mean-spirited; the only bits of So They Say that I really thought were funny were the bits with the groupies and Capt. Hammer's monologue about the anticipated joys of 'long-term' relationships.

If the whole thing were written like Act III I'd hate it.

As it is, I just feel cheated out of an actual ending that matched the beginning.

[mishalak.livejournal.com]

I understand that point of view. For whatever reason I liked the third act at art even though (as with Sweeney Todd) I keep wishing it could have come out better.