Civic Center Boondoggle

[mishalak]

Already the spin from the city is starting so they can waste money on a project that won't provide the benefits they claim. They are calling Civic Center a haven for vagrants and drug deals. That something needs to be done so it isn’t a barrier between downtown and the Golden Triangle. They say by adding a giant water feature, a couple glass boxes, an ultra modern light/sculpture, and a pedestrian bridge designed by Libeskind will bring people back to the park.

I very much doubt it.

I am willing to offer 10 to 1 odds that building this stuff in the Civic Center won't actually attract any more visitors. Civic Center is surrounded on three sides by offices and on the forth by a museum and a library. No one goes there on a regular basis because no one lives there. In New York the reason that Central Park gets used is that many of those buildings around it are apartments.

If there were a constant and visible police presence to keep the drug deals away and something were done to throw a drop cloth over the homeless problem, then Civic Center might be used by a few city or state employees having their lunch. Heck a few museum visitors might even forgo eating at the museum restaurant to have a picnic in the park. But overall the problem that keeps people away is there aren't any people around there and it isn't convenient to stop around there. There isn't parking and face it, Denver is a car centered city. There are busses enough, but how many people are going to hop a bus to go downtown to a park when they have lots of parks closer to home?

Now going on to the design, I don't like the giant water feature. I think, like most water features, it won't work as well as advertised. Water features tend not to and because this is Denver and we're constantly short of water and have lots of freeze thaw cycles to break things. I also don't like the design in general because I think it clashes in an unharmonious way with the classical Greek architecture in the park. What is there now isn't particularly fantastic architecture as Greek Revival stuff of the early 20th Century goes, but it should be worked with rather than just sticking in something in as modern a style as possible.

Changing Skyline Park didn't actually get rid of the problems that caused people not to use it, I hope the people of Denver won't let them be boondoggled by this silly proposal.

Comments

[vicarage.livejournal.com]

Those diagonal guyed bridges are very popular nowadays, but really need something more interesting to cross than a road, like the Millenium Bridge in Newcastle, which rotates like a blinking eye to allow traffic up the Tyne.

Tourists go there to see the state capitol and as a break from shopping to the north. A water feature you can get wet in will be popular in the summer, but is perhaps not dignified enough for the surroundings. Perhaps a clock that tells the time with water jets might be the thing.

[mishalak.livejournal.com]

I think that it could be used by tourists and shoppers now with minimal changes. More policing for starters. Secondly some work on upkeep of the lawns, trees, and sidewalks. Put in those sidewalk grating like are put around trees in areas that get trod upon too often to grow grass and/or put in more paths. There use to be two unsightly trails where people cut across the lawn from the corners of 14th and Lincoln and Colfax and Lincoln to the capitol building. Putting in official paths that allow people to take the natural course improved the look of the area.

As for big projects a bridge might not be bad, when the city can afford it if it can be made to complement the current structures rather than clash with them. Perhaps some offical places to eat a lunch or perhaps even a cafe in the existing courthouse if space can be found for the courts elsewhere.

I think the plans are too ambitious, send the wrong message since we are going to be short of water for the foreseeable future, and don't fit with the existing architecture of the park.

[jcfiala.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought of the water issue, and that's a good strong one to put forward when opposing the change. "How will this grand redesign look when we don't have enough water to run the fountains?"

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

Studies actually recommend civic fountains in drought areas. Apparently just the vision of the water makes people feel better.

[armoire-man.livejournal.com]

I saw that on the front of the paper this morning and though "That is the uglyest thing on the planet." So I'm going to write them a letter, and let them know that getting people into the park won't work with it.

[jcfiala.livejournal.com]

a) I agree, that looks pretty silly.

b) "Changing Skyline Park didn't actually get rid of the problems that caused people not to use it, I hope the people of Denver won't let them be boondoggled by this silly proposal." Skyline is that park along Arapahoe by the 16th street mall, isn't it? What are the problems that are causing people not to use it? Because I walk down it once or twice a week, and it seems to be used to me.

[mishalak.livejournal.com]

Oh good an on the ground report. Who is using Skyline park? Because the reason given for changing it was to get rid of the scruffy looking youths who were so bad ass they apparently scared off office workers looking to have lunch there. Plus homeless, drug deals, and the usual suspects. My understanding is that not much has changed. The scruffy youths still hang out and it isn't used by the gentle folk as intended by the high and mighty in the planning office.

[jcfiala.livejournal.com]

Well, I see a lot more office workers than 'scruffy teens', although there are some kids who hang around. If what you've listed is the reason for the redesign, I'm afraid I'd rate them as having succeeded.

I think it's a lovely park to walk through on my way to the 16th street mall, and often will walk along it instead of taking the straight route to the mall if I'm going towards Wyncoop for lunch.

[mishalak.livejournal.com]

Huh. Well perhaps I was wrong about Skyline. I don't get down to the 16th mall much so I don't know how it is and isn't used these days.

[mishalak.livejournal.com]

I was going off articles like this one in Westword:
http://www.westword.com/Issues/2004-08-05/culture/artbeat.html

[jcfiala.livejournal.com]

Well, it's quite possible that it's incomplete, but it's still used.

Why don't you come down and join me for lunch during the week sometime soon? We can meet in my building, walk along Skyline park, grab something for lunch, and talk about architecture, city planning, and Denvention 3. :)

[jcfiala.livejournal.com]

Well, I went down to the park during lunch today, and I'm afraid I lost count of people using the park at somewhere over 55... and that's just counting people who were actually staying in the park, rather than those who were just wandering through it.

[bureinato.livejournal.com]

I didn't realize anyone was supposed to use civic center park, except when it gets closed off for festivals. I thought it was just a giant roundabout kind of thing, in it's own not round way.

[mishalak.livejournal.com]

I think they have some vision of families and other gentry type people coming down there and keeping away "undesirables".